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By: Loke_ 
To: Everyone
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1240340.1
18.05.2004 at 20:55
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I'm not sure what the official HT stance on this is, so I thought I might as well ask.
Depending on what meassures I took in the last few versions of my application, I have more or less of a problem with people using illegal cracked versions of the registeted HAM. I know that other shareware CHPP developers have the same problem, because when I scan the net for HAM cracks, in order to counter them, I always find cracks for other tools such as HM and other shareware tools. This will undoubtably be a problem for future shareware tools aswell.
I thought that if the HT's could perhaps release a news info about using illegal cracked CHPP software was considered against the rules, and could ultimately lead to penalties to the offenders Hattrick team, that would go a very long way in helping us developers against this problem. The message alone would help tremendously - even if no actual actions where ever taken. I thought that this would be a very nice way for the HT's to lend a hand to us.
Loke_
Loke GF (17454)
Superligaen(1769), Danmark
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By: Format_c
To: Loke_
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1240340.3
as reply to 1240340.2
19.05.2004 at 00:26
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Why don't you implement an online CD key check ?
I don't know if it's easy or not, but you could ban CD key shared for example
Are you talking about "usuak" cracks or about cracks which implement new "agains rule" functions ?
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By: Loke_
To: Lanny
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1240340.5
as reply to 1240340.4
19.05.2004 at 01:03
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No one is forcing anyone to pay anything.
On the topic of online keychecks, HAM already has that to a lesser degree (only certain online activity triggers the check - you generally want to make sure that server unavailablity does not keep each and every user from running the application). But the current online keycheck in HAM has also been craked. Next version will change that - but then a new crack will get released...
Loke_
Loke GF (17454)
Superligaen(1769), Danmark
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By: tony-spark
To: Loke_
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1240340.6
as reply to 1240340.1
19.05.2004 at 01:33
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Whilst I don't agree with piracy, I don't think HT should be involved in the matter.
The applications are not part of Hattrick and should be kept independent.
If using external applications illegally becomes a Hattrick offence then it means that HT are reliant on external parties to determine whether someone is using an application illegally.
This is wide open to abuse. An unscrupulous application author could use this to hinder an opposing team by providing false data to HT.
Edited 2004-05-19 01:37:23 by tony-spark
Tony's Park Keepers
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By: Loke_
To: tony-spark
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1240340.7
as reply to 1240340.6
19.05.2004 at 08:12
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I agree that actually taking action, would require a lot of work (ie. having a list of registered users on each application stored on the HT servers and checking that upon the requests from the applications). I realise that this is not realistic.
What I asked for was a message telling that actions might be taken. I am pretty sure that many users would take that seriously, and thus would help a lot.
Loke_
Loke GF (17454)
Superligaen(1769), Danmark
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By: goran77
To: Loke_
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1240340.8
as reply to 1240340.7
19.05.2004 at 08:55
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If you add online code checking you can always add the feature if code checking fails (due to the serer not functioning), then you let the user use HAM.
I have added online code checking to HTPoli, and I have done it that way.
In case I find out (using online code checking) that registration codes are cracked, then I display message that user might get reported to HT team. I received several email, when such users ask me not to report them, that they made a mistake, they didn't know it was cracked version and so on....
But of course if online code checking is cracked, then they wouldn't getthat message anyway. But you release new versions quite often, so that might also make quite a few problems to such users (they would have to search for new crack every time).
On the other hand I agree that such message from HT team would be very nice gesture, and would really help CHPP developers.
Author of HattrickPoli, tool for Hattrick managers
(http://www.hattrickpoli.com)
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By: cretze
To: Everyone
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1240340.9
as reply to 1240340.8
19.05.2004 at 09:37
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I don't think that Hattrick should be involved in this piracy thing. If you can't secure your application don't ask Hattrick to take care of this thing. It is like some one beat you and you came with your big brother ;)
Cretze
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By: Xirius
To: Everyone
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1240340.11
as reply to 1240340.10
19.05.2004 at 15:02
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Cracking has really put alot of extra work on developers, and are time consuming and annoying. However, this problem is the developers problem and should not put more work load on the Hattrick team.
Sadly, this means that we have to put more effort into making it "uncrackable", and not more helpful.
Xirius CEO of Adonis(65521)
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By: pro_scania
To: DirectorsCut
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1240340.13
as reply to 1240340.12
19.05.2004 at 17:38
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The problem is the if:s that checks whether the program is cracked. Still if you implement some feature that it checks my keyword to the server, I can make it skip the whole process of connecting to your server through making one crack. Me myself could (almost) do it, just by having the knowledge how.
That is the major problem. Maybe one md5-key involving some keyword... nah, falls in the reason above.
Technically you cannot stop the cracking as far as I can see. The only things you can do is to make the (non)customers think what you do is good, and therefore buy the program.
MVH
Gronalund
Grönalund FF
För övrigt tycker jag att Skåne skall få en egen liga
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Vi protesterar mot alla som försöker tysta oss.
>> Gå med du också --> (2641)
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By: Loke_
To: pro_scania
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1240340.14
as reply to 1240340.13
19.05.2004 at 17:50
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What you can do, is to try to get the HT's to write a news item, that would give users the impression that software theft might jeopardize their most precious item - their Hattrick team... :-)
Edited 2004-05-19 17:51:00 by Loke_
Loke_
Loke GF (17454)
Superligaen(1769), Danmark
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By: b_redeker
To: Loke_
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1240340.16
as reply to 1240340.14
19.05.2004 at 19:15
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While I sympathize with you, two things:
* I think indeed that since _you_ charge money (which you can, god knows you put a lot of time in the product, lots of people use it and HT lets you, etc), if people crack the code, it is still more or less your problem.
* HT could issue a statement they're against piracy, and that would be a good thing. But you should never make a threat you can't enforce, so I don't think they should threaten to ban people if they won't do that.
Again, this is not about the question whether you should charge money at all, cause I'm still undecided on that one (I might do that myself in the future), but I do think that the problem is ours/yours to solve.
The best they can do is probably issue a statement that software piracy is illegal and punishable by law (although whether that will deter anybody...)
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By: pro_scania
To: Format_c
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1240340.17
as reply to 1240340.15
19.05.2004 at 20:37
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That is, that you need to connect to Steam to get access. You need to hold one connection to be able to do anything. And when you connect they check your id towards a database.
What the problem is that we have, is that we need to save our files and be able to load them into the program afterwards.
One way i could imagine is that we save all files on a server, so everytime you are going to reload the program you NEED to connect to the id-checker. Offcourse the subroutine/function that downloads the files is placed so that you can't break it with hex-editor cracking. Which means that you can't put any files into the program without contacting the server and therefore make illigal programs non-usable.
What we have done so far is a safe system, but not very user-friendly.
What I wanted to say is that there's where the thin line is, safe or user-friendly. I'd say user friendly is most important =(
MVH
Gronalund
Grönalund FF
För övrigt tycker jag att Skåne skall få en egen liga
Snapphaneklanen är till för oss som vill ha en egen liga för oss skåningar
Vi protesterar mot alla som försöker tysta oss.
>> Gå med du också --> (2641)
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By: pro_scania
To: Loke_
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1240340.18
as reply to 1240340.14
19.05.2004 at 20:39
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hmm, i'd say it's a great idea. though a bit immoral =D
What you can do, is to try to get the HT's to write a news item, that would give users the impression that software theft might jeopardize their most precious item - their Hattrick team... :-)
Edited 2004-05-19 17:51:00 by Loke_
MVH
Gronalund
Grönalund FF
För övrigt tycker jag att Skåne skall få en egen liga
Snapphaneklanen är till för oss som vill ha en egen liga för oss skåningar
Vi protesterar mot alla som försöker tysta oss.
>> Gå med du också --> (2641)
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