koobas.hobune.stream
Who published the question below?!
Hi guys, that's it. We need to change SOMETHING: The amount of crap and duplicates is increasing with every new user. They seem to be unable to read the guide lines.
One of these points will certainly help getting the standard up again:
The mod status being optional and users have to actually apply for it if they want to help moderate.
Idiot-proof message box that blocks the ask new question page until it is read entirely and confirmed by the user.
Moderator actions being publicly visible and traceable by individual question. Below the question title make a little box displaying:
Moderator who published this question: "Moderatorname" at "date&time".
It's nice to have a little discussion in the moderator space once in a while about the quality of the site. But after 2 months all of this is forgotten and buried beneath the regular schedule of answering questions and moderating and no action is taken to improve the problem areas.
Reason: http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/1182975/help-me-plaese-in-have-serius-problem1.html
It was published to default of course, and no comments about editing and formatting.
By we need to change something I naturally mean the admins who can actually change the site. Non-Unity Moderators can't achieve any change in this direction unfortunately.
I hope you guys agree with me on this and we can get some actual change to the site rolling. Cheers
PS: I know some of you disagree with the points I mention regularily, but: If you don't think anything needs to change, don't complain about the results. I am open to discussion. BUT -> Don't insist everything is ok and tell me I'm unreasonable while in the same breath pointing out problem areas and saying "something" needs to be done.
Yeah, I know:
http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/1181009/where-do-i-put-the-commas.html#comment-1181242
How does things like this pass the moderation queue??????????
However, once you get 1000 points I think you should be competent enough. $$anonymous$$aybe the points should be higher to reach the mods?
The bottom line is really actually read through the post before you confirm it.
Oh my god. LOL that example is so wrong that it's funny again.
The problem is, that the reputation ranking is no indication of skill or knowledge. I corrected a user with 16k rep when I had 35 rep when I started using UA and he also said, "rep doesn't mean I am always right". ;)
That doesn't mean he is incompetent and I am way more competent, it means everyone can make mistakes.
$$anonymous$$any times a new user is so pleased by an answer, that they click the user who wrote it and upvote everything they posted on the forum. That happened to me once. A user was so happy for my answer that he started following me and upvoting every comment and answer.
How do this questions get passed? It's a fact that many moderators publish everything. We can't know why they do it, we can only guess:
Angry kids who want to be destructive for the sake of being destructive.
People who never read the guide lines and just do whatever they think is right.
People that actually don't understand the rules because they don't speak english.
All of these are definitely not candidates for a moderator.
Questions in the Help Room are not moderated - anyone can post there.
The question link you posted is an example of a site robot trying to get a hook in to the website.
Such 'users' should be Suspended at the moderation queue.
Consequently, I have deleted both questions belonging to that user.
I'm all for the first and third options. $$anonymous$$oderation really shouldn't be automatic with reputation. Heck, even making the mods fill out an open-book multiple choice exam of questions that can easily be answered by the guidelines would do wonders to make sure they read it. And accountability is always good.
I don't think we should raise the barrier for new users... that seems to be at a good place, but raising the bar for mods would definitely be a good idea.
I think #3 is INCREDIBLY important:
Accountability
Always an improvement!
But without any rules, accountability won't do any good.
I just saw a Q in main UA about translating a C# script into UnityScript. A $$anonymous$$od named Orange-something closed it (it says who closes Qs.) I think that Q should have been moved into the HelpRoom and left open. But the (very out-of-date and hard to decipher) rules do sort of say to just close it, depending on what you take as canon.
That's another side of the coin for sure : )
The rules definitely need to be defined by the ad$$anonymous$$s/UT, and defined CLEARLY. But we also definitely need to be accountable to each other. I think I can safely say that we all agree on these two points.
Obviously the tools are part of the problem, but my understanding is they simply can't be changed -- Unity Corp. doesn't have access to the site code.
But the other part is the Mods don't agree on the rules. And the rules are out-of-date and no longer very helpful. For example, I would have moved that Q to the HelpRoom and not closed it. 3 people were trying to help the guy figure out what a compiler error was and how to use code formatting.
Every day we get a dozen Q's just as bad, published to main UA, which other moderators close but don't move into the Help Room. I don't understand that - to me, the point is to not clog up the front page of main UA.
That particular Q sticks out internally, but as an actual problem - wastes a slot on the front page - it's no worse than the other dozen.
=-=-=
Publishing-wise, at the start of the year, every weekend had hundreds of 2+ day olds in Moderation, which made 200 people very frustrated. And at some point, someone had to mass-publish (to Default UA.)
The last few weeks, I haven't seen it longer than 30. So that's gotten better. The percentage of bad Qs seems about the same.
It's also common to have it fail moving a Q into the Help Room (this has been brought up before.) I've moved then published 6 Q's into HelpRoom, then seen one of them at the top of Default.
I know the tools are third party provided, but only a ad$$anonymous$$ or other Unity authority can get a process starting where they update the system.
I would have moved that Q to the HelpRoom and not closed it. 3 people were trying to help the guy figure out what a compiler error was and how to use code formatting.
That's exactly the point where I myself disagree ^^ $$anonymous$$oving an offtopic (+ duplicate + bad formatting in this case) Q to Help, solving it's problem, getting the editing correct, etc..doesn't make that Q an addition to UA's knowledge base, it just creates another Q nobody else benefits from.
Figuring out what a compiler error is => google "compiler error c#" How to use code formatting => read user guide
How to solve that compiler error => click any of the answered and many duplicate questions on this forum or read the msdn docs.
Done. No need to ask a new question and the searching person benefits from his newly acquired knowledge and independency in the future.
Now if someone where to ask a new question that has actually not been answered fully before, but he doesn't format it, I would tell him to check out the formatting and when he does, there we have a new valuable Q.
$$anonymous$$e neither...which other moderators close but don't move into the Help Room. I don't understand that
> It's also common to have it fail moving a Q into the Help Room
I witnessed this myself hundreds of times, when I click the move button, it stays in default (it doesn't display the moved successfully message), but I just do the action again and it works, so no excuse for that. $$anonymous$$aybe we are talking about different bugs.
$$anonymous$$y process for moving to the help room is this:
right click on the question and open in new tab
publish the question
switch over to the other tab
refresh so the "waiting for moderation" window goes away
move to Help Room
To my knowledge they always stay in the help room that way, even if the question header doesn't update. I sometimes will go to the help room directly to verify as well.
I don't have any evidence to back this up, but I feel like if someone moves to the help room while another mod has the question up and adds a comment (even if 10 $$anonymous$$utes later) the question possibly gets moved back. Just a hunch.
I've had moving-to-help-room fail on published Qs (ones I just saw on the front page and the only thing I attempt is moving.) But to be clear it works on the second try.
I feel like your sequence is omitting some clicks. $$anonymous$$ine is: left-click title (wait for open in new tab,) gear/move/dropdown/Help/O$$anonymous$$ (move cursor to the close tab X while page reloads,) close tab (back in old tab now) click Publish.
That's my point -- the mods don't agree. Just we two strongly disagree on two things right here.
I think that's a good HelpRoom Q, you don't. I think tools to more easily direct Q's into the HelpRoom is a high priority, you don't (not to put words in your mouth, but sounds like you're vigorously defending the current system.)
Even more than that, I get the feeling most currently active $$anonymous$$ods are fine with "you do your thing, I'll do $$anonymous$$e."
sounds like you're vigorously defending the current system
I wouldn't say that I defend it, it's hard for me to say the tools need to change since I only know them as they are now, I haven't experienced all the past processes of change to the site like you guys, but from what I read in other Q's, it seems to have been way easier to do moderation tasks than it is now.
I would definitely support the idea of making tools more straightforward and efficient. :)
I think that's a good HelpRoom Q, you don't.
Our disagreement is based on the fact that I don't think the Help Room (as it is handled currently) is a positive addition to the site. Like Dave mentioned in a comment above, anyone can post there, it is not moderated.
That means: $$anonymous$$any, many people post their crap into it, nobody organizes it and it grows and grows until there is just a giant mess of non-unity Q's, hundred times the same beginner Q, offtopic discussions, etc.
On that we agree, right? Those Q's are there and they stay there, even when closed. If nobody deletes them, of course.
$$anonymous$$eeping that in $$anonymous$$d, I don't see the benefit of storing every Q in a container, that nobody can see the bottom of anymore and that is filled with the same question over and over and over and over again. This seems just insane to me.
Why do we even need to post to default in the current system? Low reputation users can easily bypass the mod queue by publishing to the helproom and it is instantly there and everyone can interact with it. I think this is a major flaw in the current system. "Why have my question checked when I can just publish it myself in this special space?"
$$anonymous$$y suggestion would be to have all valid questions from users below 100 reputation go strictly to Help Room, to get them used to being correct in explaining problems and formatting, etc.. All above 100 can choose to post into meta, default (or moderators if they exceed 1000 rep). Not into Help anymore, since Help should be for unexperienced users to get them to know the functions of the forum and basic Unity stuff without being yelled at and ridiculed, like SaraCecila once described the function of the Help room in my first mod question.
Then the Help Room would make sense to me as a safe space for new users who need to be guided a bit, and the rest goes to default if it isn't the 34th copy of another question or offtopic.
Now, the Help Room is a dumping ground for questions that are offtopic, against forum rules (especially compiler error related) and otherwise not to be treated as relevant to many other users.
These are my thoughts on this. I hope I could get my point across properly.
Here's an old pre-helproom topic (it's my post, but it references an older one.) http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/891210/meta-should-there-be-a-help-room.html
I think SC's stickied HowToUseTheHelpRoom sums it up pretty well.
I was going to suggest you start a Q about what goes into the HelpRoom. But it sounds like your answer is "nothing - it should be shut down." The problem is, there is a Help Room, the rules are what they are. So you're trying to convince other $$anonymous$$ods to play by what you think a redesigned site should work. $$anonymous$$eanwhile, they're doing the same thing.
There's no sense among (some/many?) $$anonymous$$ods of needed a shared, consistent set of rules.
Nothing will change at this point in time on this iteration of the website.
Maybe I shouldn't be talking about this... but my insider knowledge says that dZone crew were unable to fix the bugs in their software and moved Unity support team from direct help to forum QA based help. A total relegation.
Obviously unhappy with this, Unity decided to start looking for new software on which to base UA and the other Unity3d.com sub-sites.
As far as I understand, a new provider was found and a totally new design is underway.
The redesign project is a lot larger than they originally intended and so is taking a long time, but now with 2 dedicated developers on the project the ball is rolling.
Asking the mods for their input probably didn't prove as useful as support originally hoped, last time, so maybe expect a lot more streamlining in the next iteration.
Don't watch this space, though. It will take some time.
Thank you for lighting this beacon of hope in the darkness of this question's topic! Let's see what happens.
